The full transcript for Talk Experiential episode #16 “How Storytelling Impacts Business” is below. Read on to find out how you can use storytelling with your business to make a difference in your bottom line.

#16 How Storytelling Impacts Business

Corey Blake on episode #16 of Talk Experiential.

JOEY: Welcome back to another Talk Experiential Podcast, Episode #16. Welcome our next guest, Corey Blake, founder of Round Table Companies. He is a CEO, founder and a speaker of TED Talks. He’s going to share a story on how he started his storytelling company and how he is transforming, focusing on experiences that change people. Hope you guys enjoy. If you like this episode, please make sure you share it and five-star it. Welcome back to another Talk Experiential Podcast. Really excited about our next guest, Corey Blake, from Chicago. He is founder of Round Table Companies. First time I met him was way up in Utah skiing. We did this amazing game. We’ll hear more about that, but thanks for joining, Corey.

COREY: Oh, pleasure to be here, man.

JOEY: Awesome. Awesome. Well tell me about yourself and what you do.

COREY: A little bit of background story?

JOEY: Yeah, that’d be great.

COREY: Sure. Well, I kind of came up into business from a back door. I was a theater major, BFA in musical theater. Then I went out to L.A. for ten years and started as a storyteller in commercials and television and some film stuff. Eventually had a realization that I was a crayon in other people’s crayon box and really didn’t want to use my purpose and my gifts to help sell more Mountain Dew or encourage more kids to eat cheeseburgers, so I made some difficult transitions in my life but started my company as a storytelling company in 2005, so we’re approaching, what, 12 or 13 years as an organization right now focusing on how storytelling can impact business.

JOEY: Very cool. That’s an interesting concept. Crayon in other people’s crayon box. That’s actually awesome.

COREY: It was a challenging time, I’ll say. You know, not being in alignment with purpose, right. Just for me it was kind of excruciating for a number of years, and getting back into alignment was really important for my mental health.

JOEY: Right. Right. And what made you — I mean, just kind of from your experience, what made you start your own company?

COREY: At the time, I had been producing and directing. I had started two previous storytelling companies, more as film companies. Made really bad dating decisions twice, and on both occasions got romantically involved with someone who I was creatively involved with, and in both cases, I eroded all of the trust around me and imploded two companies. So that was brilliant learning lessons, no doubt, because I finally figured out how to do that in a healthier way and create more trust that was reliable and long term. But in 2005, with RTC, I had just gotten married and I wanted to be more stable. I was still doing a fair amount of acting and commercial work, and ultimately that is a very unpredictable income and I wasn’t loving it anymore. Like, I would get in the car and go on auditions and feel like, oh, I’m aggravated that this is pulling me away from producing and directing work that I was doing. And I felt like I should give some younger kid an opportunity who would fricking love to be doing what I was doing. So there was kind of that discontent amplified by getting married. Then, my wife, who was going to move out to L.A. after we got married, came to the realization that that really wasn’t going to suit her identity in the world. She’s a psychologist, she works with troubled kids, and she had an identity at the school she was at in Illinois, so she didn’t want to move. I was kind of in that place of feeling like, okay, I need to be with my wife, so I need to make this transition, leave L.A., and honestly I started RTC, like, because I was lost and trying to figure out, like, who am I if I’m not what I knew in L.A. Initially, it was a very practical company. It was not creative and it quickly, thankfully, emerged into something far more creative.

JOEY: Got it. Very cool. Well, you know, we’ve talked before and kind of — the cool things that you’re doing, I mean — you know, when we first chatted I was kind of — I was just impressed by what you were saying with, you know, really creating that story, you know, for a brand and finding that DNA. I guess, how do you help companies kind of grow with that and turn it into an experience?

COREY: Well, I think as you can kind of hear even in the way that I kind of talk about my past and myself, I tend to share a lot, right? You know, I tend to explore that vulnerable space because I find that as human beings, there’s this — especially in business — there’s this natural tendency to compare ourselves to one another, and that can really be a hindrance in business, especially when we’re talking about brands and customers. So the reason that I share things that are often more personal is because when we can share in each other’s darker sides or the more heavy moments of life and those realities, there is an equality as opposed to a hierarchy. So that’s a lot of what we’re actually doing for businesses is helping them to express the wholeness of what they stand for and who they are, not just broadcast how they’re awesome, but actually share with more depth, so that the people who are most like them come running towards them saying, oh my gosh, I am you, we are the same, we must find a way to work together, or I should be a customer, or we should be in partnership, or however that materializes. And people who do not feel compelled, who actually feel repelled will run in the opposite direction and save that brand a ton of time, energy and resources because they don’t have to weed through and determine, you know, of all the people coming at them, who are the right ones. It becomes very clear when we express more wholly who we are in the world.

JOEY: Right. I love that. You’re coming on in a real sense. You’re connecting on an emotional standpoint, you know, instead of just — you know, some of these brands out there, like, oh I’m so awesome, you know. There’s no connection there. That’s neat that you’ve found that, you know, that kind of base. I mean, just kind of from that game — you want to kind of talk through kind of the vulnerability is sexy, you know, how that came about and —

COREY: Sure. Yeah, we were born as really as a book writing company. I mean, that became the very fast evolution once we moved on from the more practical writing that we started from. Vulnerability has always been a part of our process. Like, we don’t support people in writing informational books, we support people in writing the book they were born to write, right? So it’s a deeper experiential, transformative experience. We would find that — you know, our process is often times to write a book. It might be a year long, it might be a year and a half. What people felt safe revealing at the beginning changes dramatically around the third month, profoundly around the sixth month, and then by the ninth month of the process, they’re saying things out loud that they’ve never admitted to themselves. And so we’re really honing in on the importance of how do we create a safe enough environment to expedite a level of trust where people were willing to expose themselves more, and vulnerability obviously is a huge key of that. And then eventually we kind of started looking around at other aspects of business, like events, and asking the question, how do we help people to feel seen, like we do in our book process, but in different ways. So the first iteration actually was a vulnerability wall, which is this art installation that we do, where we support people in feeling seen at an event experience. We first titled the vulnerability is sexy at the top of it. It became the kind of invitation to participate in it for a community. And then we created the vulnerability is sexy game to support people who are not necessarily able to come in at the price point, right, for the deep work that we do but can afford a game to play in their office or to play with people that they’re close with or want to be closer with at something like a game night. And all of it’s an invitation into seeing each other for who we are in that kind of space of more wholeness. And I’ll just share that I get to witness in watching people play the game, for example, is this grounding that is so exciting to see when they feel respected more deeply for who they are, especially around things that they previously had never really said in a business context. To suddenly realize that I’m safer with my teammates than I thought I was, right. Imagine now how they can approach client work, or for a customer to feel safer with an organization that they might be working with, imagine how that relationship can transform and become more powerful as a result of people feeling safer.

JOEY: Right. It’s that human to human touch, you know. Getting on a normal level with someone because, you know, there’s always something going in people’s lives. It was exciting when we did that. It was at Escape 2017 in Utah. There was, what, I think 70 founders all over the country. We, you know, all had dinner, and after dinner we were playing this game. At first we’re like, what’s going on. And then we start getting into it with some of the questions that gets in a deeper level, and it was like, holy crap, you know, we’re actually connecting even deeper. I thought that was pretty fascinating.

COREY: Yeah, I appreciate that you were there to experience it.

JOEY: Yeah.

COREY: That’s kind of what the conversation’s about, I suppose.

JOEY: It helped, right? So these art installations, tell me a little more about them, because it sounds like you’ve done quite a few of them, even just this past month. Tell me more about, you know, that experience that people have and helping a brand connect with people.

COREY: Yeah, so when I first started going to conferences, our company was already seven or eight years old. I kind of pulled my head out of the company and started moving out into the world, and I would attend these events. I felt like people at these events were not willing to take risks until it was time to leave. And that felt like this massively missed opportunity, right? So I was asking the question, how do we support people to be seen more quickly at an event or conference experience so they take more advantage of being there, by being willing to take more risks. The vulnerability art installation was our answer to that question. In my experience, it offers people these three kind of points of experience, right? So initially people who are passing by, they may see the installation and want to participate, so they fill out an anonymous card, a submission where they’re offering up something that they feel vulnerable about as they’re walking into the event experience that day. So they write that down and drop it in a box. And that’s the first experience of kind of taking something that we feel uncomfortable about, potentially even shameful about, and getting rid of it to some extent. Then later when they come back, the artists on our team have turned it into a piece of art on the wall, right. So then they have this moment of, okay, the old story that I had around this was that this was an ugliness in myself, but what I’m seeing is that this is kind of beautiful, right? So there’s this collision between the old story I brought into the event and a new story that’s being presented to me. I think people have kind of a choice, right, which story do I want to carry forward with. And then the third component is looking at the entire installation, which usually a normal installation includes about 100 submissions from people. Now you’re looking at the community. Who are we as a community, and each person who’s looking at the installation can see their story in the stories of those around them to find, again, that equality of, oh my gosh, we’re all the same, we’re all carrying garbage into this, we’ve all got massive baggage. And some people’s baggage is unbelievably, right, heavy or fascinating or just profoundly deep. So that entire experience, I think, offers people an ability to feel safer within that context so that they might be willing to have more conversations than they would have previously, might be willing to take bigger risks with what’s happening in the room, for example. So those are the art installations. We’ve actually started doing some different ones. Recently we started crowd sourcing stories at events and actually creating a story book art installation where we are sharing the story of a community. We just did one around, what’s our path to purpose as a community; 250 CEOs were a part of that community. We created essentially the hero’s journey crowd sourced from their responses of the journey towards creating a more purposeful company.

JOEY: Very cool. And we’ll have this on our website, too, some of the picture and the video that you sent, because I think that’s fascinating. What are the reactions that you get after people see this?

COREY: You know, it is dual, right? There are people who want nothing to do with it, right? Like, if you’re not someone who wants to feel seen, if that’s not safe for you, or if you’re somebody who, let’s say, has a particular challenge in life that you’ve been really good at avoiding, like, the idea of being seen is very uncomfortable. So those people, we find, like, you know, they’ll turn away from anyone on our team. We get within ten feet of that person and they’ll shift their body language, right, or they don’t make eye contact. So in one sense, it’s absolutely fascinating to watch, but essentially what’s happening is they’re letting me know, I’m not your people. And then there’s the people who are, and the people who are, they seriously come running, right? It’s so wonderful to see. They have to be in contact or they want to share about the experience. They want to offer something personal about the impact. They want to understand better who are we as a company, what do we do that we’re showing up and creating this in this space, right, which creates wonderful opportunities from a sales standpoint, because this is an extension of our purpose. Our purpose is essentially to help people to feel seen in the world. So, you know, it’s certainly not just being done willy nilly. There’s a lot of intention into how does it mirror the experience someone may have in different ways that they might hire our organization. But all of that lends to people who are emotionally moved in one way or another, tends to make it very apparent that they’ve had a special experience and want to be around us more frequently in one way or another, sometimes in doing more business together.

JOEY: Gotcha. Very cool. So I have a question. Just with you learning — you know, knowing the story and telling of — creating that, you know, that story for a brand. You know, I know there’s a lot of brands out there that aren’t doing it right. You can tell who’s out there, who is — you know, just kind of your experience, you know. I know we’re going to have a lot of listeners that are brands and, you know, they’re always trying to find out, how can I get out there. It’s a very messy marketing world out there. There’s just so much noise out there. How can they stand out? I don’t know if you a tip or two of how they can get in front of them and, you know, use these type of experiences to grab their target audience.

COREY: Well, I’m certainly a fan of going deeper rather than wider, right? So as an organization, we have a number of communities that we play a role in, and I prefer to do a lot within those communities as opposed to spread myself thin amongst a larger number. Essentially, we look at those communities as people where we want to be doing business with most everyone who’s attending, right? So finding the places where our people gather is a big part of it. And then having those deeper experiences where we are contributing experientially all over the place. Like, we don’t just do the art installation, we also contribute through — like, I do things like eye gazing at events, where people can come sit across from me and feel seen for a few minutes without language, right? We do the installations. We do game nights with vulnerability is sexy. I teach workshops on this stuff. All of that contributes to that community fully seeing us and feeling seen by us, and that creates a tremendous amount of conversation to do further work together. So the depth there, I think, is a real key piece. The other piece is everything around your marketing being a reflection of the essence of what the organization stands for. And the challenge there is that most organizations that I come across don’t really answer that in a way that is a true reflection of what they are, right? It’s often times if they do have a purpose statement or they do have values written, they’re written to hang on the wall but not necessarily an accurate reflection of the guts, right? Like, I look at an organization as an artistic expression of a founder, right? So then when we look at purpose and values, these are profoundly deep, and if we sat in a room and tried to think our way into how to articulate them, we’re getting probably pretty brainy answers. But what an organization benefits from is actually answer responses, articulation that comes from the guts and the marrow and the bones. So once we can — like, first we have to recognize what is that, articulate it using language that people can really feel and respond to, and then we can look at all of the marketing and the experiences that we want to create in the world and ensure that they’re in alignment or an invitation into that essence, even if it’s — like, as a book writing company, we’re doing art installations, right? So it’s an offshoot, but if you liked how it felt, you might want to check out our company and all the different things we do, even if you don’t want to necessarily purchase an art wall.

JOEY: Right. Gotcha. Very cool. No, it’s fascinating how a book company can turn into an experience company. You know, you’ve kind of just kind of, you know, shifted that. It’s like, you know, really getting down to that DNA. I mean, what we do here, it’s psychology of just, you know, thinking on a human-to-human level of, you know, how can you get in people’s minds and, you know, kind of change their mindset. Or just, you know, not just change it but just make it come alive. That’s fascinating.

COREY: Thank you. To me, it feels like the expansion of purpose, right? Once we recognized we weren’t just about writing books but we were helping people to feel seen, wow. We could explode the different services that we offer and augment, using the same essential process and “technology” that we had created to help people write books. We could point in all different directions, including corporate culture, experiential marketing. All of that was not available until we really got into the essence of who are we and what do we stand for, and then it could blow up.

JOEY: Yeah. Very cool. With a lot of these, is it more event based that you do these activations, or is there other scenarios that you use this type of story telling?

COREY: The art installation work is essentially all event based, because it needs two days, essentially, to be created live. And those are such a wide range of events from really intimate, you know, 100 to 200 people, to we did an event — last month we did a 46-foot wide, 8-foot tall art wall for 1000 people, and we did a traditional two-sided wall for 40,000 people at McCormick Place.

JOEY: Oh wow.

COREY: Right. So it’s got a very wide range, but it’s emotional. People gravitate to it. They tend to sit and stare at it for 10 to 30 minutes. We have people who sit in front of it, right, because they really want to read every entry and get comfortable. So that work typically is done at an event experience, although we are now looking at — we’ve been invited to potentially do, like, permanent art installations in cities, or doing an art installation within a corporate setting or a restaurant setting, which is different than an event experience, but still essentially an expression of the community. And then the other storytelling work that we do — we do quite a bit within organizations, right, not event centered, but going into an organization and helping them re-write their story so that they can actually change the behavior within the organization. And that is a whole other fascinating piece of the work that’s very alive right now.

JOEY: Very cool. If you want to expand a little bit about that, because I see that at just — you know, not just — you know, especially with a lot of these brands, it’s not just about, you know, reaching their target audience, but creating that culture internally. If you don’t mind expanding a little bit on that.

COREY: Well, sure. As human beings, you know, from a psychological standpoint, our behavior is an expression of our understanding of the world, which is essentially framed by the stories that we tell ourselves. Some of them have been handed to us from generations ago, some of them were handed from our parents, some of them through our experiences, etc. If we want to change a culture of an organization, then one way to approach that is to help people revise the stories that power their behavior, right? So if I’ve got a story around — I’m an artistic person. If I’ve got a story around my limitations, they’re going to show up left and right in the office. When I get triggered, feeling limited, I’m going to act out. I’m going to potentially create drama that the office doesn’t need, right? So one of the ways that — if we want a less dramatic culture, well, we could support people on issues around what triggers them. How do we help them be more graceful when they’re triggered. Simply that alone is actually a pretty huge piece of work to do with an organization. It’s a pretty huge piece of work just to do with a leadership team first and then to move into the organization, but an organization that’s focusing on that kind of work is essentially creating people who are more whole, right, because now they’re dealing with how their past shows up in their present, which is big stuff. You can change the entire emotional landscape of an organization. You can unlock people, kind of like — I think of us as — we’re all popcorn kernels in that way and we pop at different times. If we can essentially turn up the heat and help more people to pop and get bigger and essentially show up in a more delicious way in their work, they can impact the organization in entirely new ways. They take bigger responsibility. They take more risks. They bring forth — not only bring forth new ideas but actually lead the charge around new ideas. And all of that can have pretty massive impact on growth, but it starts with a shift in those stories so that people feel more alive.

JOEY: Very cool. Yeah, that’s — actually, that’s the key piece, right? Make people feel alive and they can feel like, you know, they’re just not there for a job, they’re actually part of something. Part of something different that’s meaningful.

COREY: It’s all I want in the world, man. Everything I’m looking at is how do I feel more alive in any given moment, from who I’m working with to what we’re working on, to the relationship with my wife and my home life, right? It’s all about — I want to feel more.

JOEY: Right. Right. So, you know, kind of backing up, too. Just, you know, you going down this path, you know. You’ve done all these cool commercials and being part of all these things. You know, it sounded like just something sparked that, like, — that you’ve — you know, you’re obviously more passionate about what you’re doing and really feeling something and helping other people. Did that — do you know when that kind of happened, kind of your path?

COREY: There have been a few prominent intersections, right? So one of the most profound experiences that I had as an actor was a class that I took in Los Angeles. One of my teachers was actually Jeff Goldblum, which was fascinating to study with him. He was a wonderful teacher. That methodology is called the Meisner technique of acting, where it strips away language and teaches you the emotional connection you can have with another human being, with words like, you’re wearing a blue shirt. And I found during that experience that I could have experiences that were so deep that they would live within me for days and sometimes longer. Like really incredible joy as well as, like, profound sadness or anger, without language. So that taught me energetic connection in a new way with other human beings, which is experiential. Like, it’s all — it’s so experiential. And then when I got involved in the conscious capital movement for business and became a part of that community, I — at the beginning of my journey with them, like on day one, I was like what the hell am I doing here, I don’t belong here. And then by the third and final day of that first conference that I went to, I knew exactly why I was there, because I live very much on the conscious side of that equation, and so many of the people in that community are trying to figure that piece out. I’m like, okay, well I’ve been living there for my whole life, so I felt like I was in-serviced to that community, and that could be a place where I furthered my understanding of what is it to create experiences that change people. And then I did work at the Gestalt Institute. I’ve been working with them for three years now. I work with the Gestalt Institute out of Cleveland, and the work that I have done there — it’s a therapeutic methodology, mostly for social workers and psychologists, but business people go there, too. And I had such an evocative experience working with them that — and it’s so experiential, the work that they do there, that I felt like I needed to be a conduit between that place and the business community. Like, they hold the keys to consciousness in that space, which, you know, I feel a responsibility around the experiential work that I do to not sell Mountain Dew with it. Right?

JOEY: It’s so easy to!

COREY: Really good for the world!

JOEY: Right!

COREY: Yeah, so those three intersections were really prominent in getting to where I’m at.

JOEY: That’s awesome. That’s fascinating. One of my last questions, too, and then I can kind of open it up to you, is, you know — one thing I’m fascinated with is technology and how technology is just changing our lives. You can see it from the better on a lot of ends, but also from a human engagement piece, it’s almost worse because, I mean, I can sit at home and I don’t really have to leave my house anymore. We’re in Denver and we have Amazon Now, or Prime Now, and it’s two-hour delivery and I’m like — I think, you know, over Fourth of July weekend I didn’t leave the house for 72 hours because I just ordered grill, corn, meat, everything I needed. And it’s just amazing. There’s like that, you know, that human interaction is going away. I guess, what are your thoughts on technology and, you know, how that’s kind of changing the landscape of just human interaction, but also just that experience with brands or connecting with people?

COREY: Well, at points I found it very challenging, and I think where I’m at right now is acceptance of the paradox, which to me is that as we’re becoming a society that interacts more through social, we are also craving human connection when we are with people in more profound ways than I think we have in the past. It is less frequent. It feels riskier, but when people are in it, it is like a Jacuzzi. Right, it’s just so delicious. So I think what I see is that social media can be used and technology can be used to support the ecosystem around a brand, but still the most profound connection points that people have are with other human beings. So it’s important that, as part of the ecosystem, that’s being considered. You might have seen, like, in my TED talk, I refer to the relationship ladder. Like, I feel like as brands, we have an opportunity — like our funnel is flirting and then going to coffee together, and then taking someone to dinner, going on a second date and then getting them into bed. Like, that is the organization’s opportunity. Like with dating, at many steps people may determine that you’re not right for me, right? In fact, when we’re dating, we’re looking for the reason someone’s not right for us. So many of us get trapped in the first two or three stages of the relationship cycle, essentially going out on a lot of first dates or having a lot of one-night stands, but never really falling in love. And as a brand, I want people to fall in love with my brand, because there’s a lot more we can do from that space than, you know, than having a lot of one-night stands where I have to constantly find the next person to get into bed, so to speak.

JOEY: Right.

COREY: So in the ecosystem, I think social media can play a role in adding dimensionality and in creating some of those experiences, but ultimately some kind of human touch point is beneficial because it can just so profoundly amplify somebody’s emotional connection to a brand.

JOEY: Right. That’s a good way of thinking, because I didn’t — I liked how you said it, too. Just it’s kind of less frequent when you do have those interactions and, you know — kind of like, you know, I go back to the ski trip because it was such a fascinating trip. Did you go on the one year before that?

COREY: No. The one we went on together was my first.

JOEY: Okay. Yeah, me too. You know, just being around and having an experience like that. You know, Founders One is just an interesting — you put a bunch of, you know, A-type people in a room and it’s fascinating. I just get so excited, you know, when you have those type of interactions. But like you said, you know, having it less frequent, kind of makes it more, I don’t know — you zero in on it more. But then, you know, tying that into, you know, an experience is, you know, wanting to make that experience memorable is so key. Yeah, that’s pretty fascinating.

COREY: That’s awesome. I appreciate how you framed that. You know, it’s one thing to go through those first few steps. Like, you could totally go to a traditional event like the YEC Escape, and if you never get into the vulnerable stuff, right, you’re essentially flirting, having coffee and maybe going to dinner. But if we never create an opportunity for those around us to reject us or judge us, then we can never really get to true love. And the first night, we did that, right? You put out stuff where some people might have been like, dude, I don’t like that about you. But chances are actually quite good that most people were like, I can see myself in that decision you made or that story that you just shared and, wow, I feel better about me because of what you just shared, and now I think very differently and feel very differently about you because your story helped me like me more. I mean, that is a profound experience that someone can have through that level of vulnerability. And then, when we did that on night one, there were still two more days, right? So then the opportunity for relationships to continue to blossom and people to talk with — hey, that thing that you talked about the other night that you brought up, can I ask you a question about that, because I’m kind of dealing with that right now in my life. Like, all of a sudden you’re having not shallow A personality conversations that people can get trapped in, but you’re talking about the grid of life. And then the idea of, well we should fricking work together, becomes so much easier because you actually have connected at that wonderful human level.

JOEY: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, I think that’s why I got in experiential marketing I think. And I think that’s what, you know, as it’s — I keep reading, too, of how many brands are just jumping into it, like we’ve got to be part of it in some fashion just because, you know, a commercial or not doing these type of experiences, you’re going to miss the eight-ball and not, you know, make them really real and authentic is so key, you know, moving forward, so.

COREY: You’re talking — the same thing has happened with storytelling, right? So many brands were jumping on the storytelling wagon. It’s still a big buzz word, but people do it really poorly and they don’t — I believe with experiences and with storytelling, if you are not provoking a response from people that helps them quickly determine, I am so on board or I am so not right for this, then it’s a lost opportunity, right? If you’re trying to preach to everyone or trying to talk to everyone or tell your story to everyone or create an experience for everyone, you’re creating something that’s relatively bland. The opportunity, right, is to create something that — I mean within 10 or 15 seconds, I want people in front of that experience or who are hearing that story to either be lit on fire or so fricking uncomfortable that they’ve got to back away. And that’s in service to them. Like, I don’t want to waste their time. I don’t want to try to do business and only eight months later to be pulling their hair out, saying I was so wrong for you guys, this is a waste of my time and energy, and blah, blah, blah. That’s a headache.

JOEY: Right. Yeah, why not be authentic and up front with the brand, or anything, than waste people’s time because, you know, then you’re almost even more pissed because you knew you were lied to at the end of the day.

COREY: Absolutely. It’s a whole — oh my gosh, so frequently I see people — I mean, how many times have you seen someone write a book — this is an example — that made their brand look shittier, right? Like, it was just not good. Or, I picked it up, I got ten pages in and I was like, yeah, I’m so not moved by this. You did not enhance your brand if that’s the experience that I had, right? Like, now — and now I want to go away and have nothing to do with you, or tell someone else about, oh, I was so excited, I thought that this was what it was and it was this, and bummer, right? And it’s absolutely bad publicity.

JOEY: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, it’s exciting just to get to, yeah, a deeper level. You know, from you saying deeper — you know, going deeper is better than getting wider — it just is — you nailed it correctly. You know, even just relationships. I mean, I think that’s the cool thing about these experiences and just talking through this. It’s, you know — you want to be real to these folks, or anybody, and that’s what —

COREY: You just highlighted something that feels really key and I haven’t articulated before, and it’s that social — the impact of technology and social media — for me, I find that it makes me want to be wider rather than deeper because I’m seeing all this amazingness that I want to participate in. That’s a real legitimate challenge, right? If we weren’t so aware of everything, it’d be easier to go deeper because it would be all we were aware of. So we have this tension, I think, that social and technology is pulling us into believing that we should be casting a wider net as opposed to fishing at a deeper level of the ocean.

JOEY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, just, you know, our phone or computer — everything at our fingertips, anything we can have. That makes — that’s an interesting thought, too. I’m going to have to think about that later.

COREY: Me too. Thanks for bringing that in focus.

JOEY: Hey, you’re welcome!

COREY: I love it.

JOEY: We’ll have another conversation about that.

COREY: Right on, man.

JOEY: No, very cool. Well, I know we could probably talk for hours because — and, you know, hopefully we can meet up in person. Are you going again to YEC?

COREY: I sure am.

JOEY: Awesome. I just booked my ticket last night, so I’m going to be out there.

COREY: That’s great, dude. We’ll have a ball.

JOEY: Well, thanks again, Corey. Thanks for jumping on. I know that we’ll be having more conversations on this and hopefully our speakers got some value out of this. I appreciate all your time.

COREY: Likewise, Joey. This was a blast. I look forward to doing it again.

JOEY: Awesome. Thanks so much.

COREY: You bet. Take care.

Listen to the full episode here.

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